a revelation
Posted on Jul 9th, 2007
by 
source-within
source-within
"You are a child of the Universe
No less than the trees and the stars
You have a right to be here
And whether or not it is clear to you
No doubt the Universe is unfolding as it should."
-------- Max Ehrmann
you know how it is: you work and work at understanding something, and you seem to get nowhere. then, when you stop even trying to understand it, and you try to get the whole subject out of your mind(!) ... there comes a moment when, POOF -- the answers to all your questions are suddenly revealed!! and they look so obvious, you can hardly believe you didn't see them in the first place!
well ... last night came my moment of revelation about why so many women reject "nice" guys, and are pulled like a magnet to the ones they describe as "bad" or "macho" or "powerful" or "irritating" or "challenging".... (and, even though their own rationale is that they believe "nice" guys will be boring in bed, i see now that the reality goes wayyyy deeper than that, even if that belief were realistic in the first place!)
my previous feeling had been that some women chose men who didn't treat them very well, because they had a low opinion of themselves; because they felt they didn't deserve to be treated well. now i see, it also goes deeper than that....
what i saw last night was that this phenomenon is rooted in our very earliest experiences, in how we were treated by our parents. not surprising at all -- one of those life-revelations that has been "hiding in plain sight" all the time, only some of us (DUHHH!) have not been able to see it!
i was looking, before, everywhere else for the solution to this mystery. i had even thought, "well, you know, a lot of people are into witchcraft -- even a lot of people you would not suspect of it -- and maybe these "bad" or "powerful" or "macho" guys are actually putting spells on these women!!" and then i thought, "well, even if they are (and yes, probably some of them are!) ... the magic spell only works on someone who is willing to accept it...."
well, hey, fellas -- if you're doing the magick spells, you can save yourself the trouble, they're not even necesary! no, it goes DEEPER than ritual magick.... and it's not just that women are falling for these men; on the other side of the coin, men are falling just as well for women who treat them badly. and it goes back to how our parents treated us....
it's well known that men are attracted to women who are, in significant ways, like the man's mother; and that women are attracted to men who are like the woman's father. but, go even a step farther, and you will see that we may choose as a mate someone who, in important ways, is a replay of our childhood experiences with BOTH parents.... it goes beyond male/female aspects.
for example: a person (whether male or female; call this person A) who grew up feeling deprived of parental attention, or feeling never able to be good enough, or to do things well enough, to please the parents -- and if these feelings have not been resolved by the time the person chooses a mate -- will indeed choose a mate who acts sufficiently "parental", so the other person can have another go at being the "child" and, hopefully this time, winning the "parent's" love and approval...! (of course that will never happen, because love is not something to be won, it has to be given as a gift, for no reason whatever! but maybe the person can learn that from the relationship, and then can stop seeking the love and approval ... and then may indeed be given it!)
and it's amazing, what different people we become, when merely relating to various people in our lives! for example, when A (above) is relating to a friend (someone who treats A as an equal) -- or even when relating to people in general -- A comes across as very confident, self-reliant, self-determining. in fact, A may often give advice and direction to others (and good advice, at that!).... AND THEN ... in the presence of a person who triggers just the right childhood memories, by acting "parental" in just the right ways ... person A becomes someone else entirely!! on a very basic, energetic level, the whole identity changes -- the self-determining person disappears in the blink of an eye; becomes the "child" again, totally subservient and devoted to the new "parent" ("yes, Dear, whatever you say -- your wish is my command!").... the "child" is reborn, and happily (even with great relief!) surrenders all decision-making to the new "parent" -- because this re-creates the unresolved situation, and puts the "child" in place for another attempt at winning the love and approval that was previously denied....
this even accounts for that phenomenon -- which had mystified me for eons! -- of a person meeting someone new, and whose immediate reaction is negative (one of great repulsion, even!) ... and then, the next thing you know, the 2 of them are married! this, we all know, is a staple of Hollywood movies -- and it happens in real life, too! it happens this way: on first meeting, the person is repelled because the other person triggers the memory of that unresolved childhood issue. the first instinct is to flee, because the memory is a painful one, and we instinctively avoid pain ("been there, done that, got the T-shirt, don't need another one!"). but then, a little later, some part of our consciousness says, "hmmm, you know, this could be a great opportunity to get back into that painful issue and resolve it -- and then be a lot happier! so, at first we flee -- i include myself, because i now realize i've done this several times, though not in a romantic context -- and then we come rocketing back to that very person, like an iron-filing feeling the pull of a magnet! (and, in fact, it is a good thing, because it gives us a way of resolving our previously-unresolved issues!)
so, dear Phillip, this is why guys like you and me are being told -- by the "experts"! -- to play the "game" of pushing women away, not treating them as equals, keeping them in suspense as to our true feelings about them ... and, most definitely, NOT to be "too nice" or too loving toward them! these rules are geared precisely for attracting women who have the aforementioned unresolved parental issues -- and, the sad thing is, those women are the great majority of the female population. (likewise, in fairness, we must admit that similarly-wounded men may account for a similar percentage of the male population.)
so, Phillip, it's good that we get dumped by these women; they're not the right ones for us! the ones we're looking for are those who have resolved their childhood issues, and who are ready for a mate who is, first of all, a friend and equal -- someone who will meet them halfway, who will allow and encourage the woman's own autonomy and freedom and growth; who will not tell her what to do and when to do it (not even if she wants him to!). and, as you and i have found out by personal experience, those "meet-me-halfway" women are few and far-between (most want to be either "parent" or "child", rather than an equal partner).... anyway, take heart, we will either attract one of them, or we won't! : ^ ) either way, at least we can stop driving ourselves crazy trying to attract the other ones....
AND ... IN THE END ... everything works out perfectly, just as in all the fairy-tales. each of us attracts exactly the people and events that can help us the most (even when the outcome may be something we never dreamed of!). we are always just where we need to be, doing just what we need to be doing ... and, as long as we're true to ourselves, we all end up winners....
ahhh, Max -- please say again what you said before; you said it so well....
"You are a child of the Universe
No less than the trees and the stars
You have a right to be here
And whether or not it is clear to you
No doubt the Universe is unfolding as it should."
yes. thank you so much!
No less than the trees and the stars
You have a right to be here
And whether or not it is clear to you
No doubt the Universe is unfolding as it should."
-------- Max Ehrmann
you know how it is: you work and work at understanding something, and you seem to get nowhere. then, when you stop even trying to understand it, and you try to get the whole subject out of your mind(!) ... there comes a moment when, POOF -- the answers to all your questions are suddenly revealed!! and they look so obvious, you can hardly believe you didn't see them in the first place!
well ... last night came my moment of revelation about why so many women reject "nice" guys, and are pulled like a magnet to the ones they describe as "bad" or "macho" or "powerful" or "irritating" or "challenging".... (and, even though their own rationale is that they believe "nice" guys will be boring in bed, i see now that the reality goes wayyyy deeper than that, even if that belief were realistic in the first place!)
my previous feeling had been that some women chose men who didn't treat them very well, because they had a low opinion of themselves; because they felt they didn't deserve to be treated well. now i see, it also goes deeper than that....
what i saw last night was that this phenomenon is rooted in our very earliest experiences, in how we were treated by our parents. not surprising at all -- one of those life-revelations that has been "hiding in plain sight" all the time, only some of us (DUHHH!) have not been able to see it!
i was looking, before, everywhere else for the solution to this mystery. i had even thought, "well, you know, a lot of people are into witchcraft -- even a lot of people you would not suspect of it -- and maybe these "bad" or "powerful" or "macho" guys are actually putting spells on these women!!" and then i thought, "well, even if they are (and yes, probably some of them are!) ... the magic spell only works on someone who is willing to accept it...."
Take me on a trip upon your magic swirling ship,
My senses have been stripped, my hands can't feel to grip,
My toes too numb to step, wait only for my boot heels
To be wanderin'.
I'm ready to go anywhere, I'm ready for to fade
Into my own parade, cast your dancing spell my way,
I promise to go under it.
(Bob Dylan / "Mr. Tambourine Man")
My senses have been stripped, my hands can't feel to grip,
My toes too numb to step, wait only for my boot heels
To be wanderin'.
I'm ready to go anywhere, I'm ready for to fade
Into my own parade, cast your dancing spell my way,
I promise to go under it.
(Bob Dylan / "Mr. Tambourine Man")
well, hey, fellas -- if you're doing the magick spells, you can save yourself the trouble, they're not even necesary! no, it goes DEEPER than ritual magick.... and it's not just that women are falling for these men; on the other side of the coin, men are falling just as well for women who treat them badly. and it goes back to how our parents treated us....
it's well known that men are attracted to women who are, in significant ways, like the man's mother; and that women are attracted to men who are like the woman's father. but, go even a step farther, and you will see that we may choose as a mate someone who, in important ways, is a replay of our childhood experiences with BOTH parents.... it goes beyond male/female aspects.
for example: a person (whether male or female; call this person A) who grew up feeling deprived of parental attention, or feeling never able to be good enough, or to do things well enough, to please the parents -- and if these feelings have not been resolved by the time the person chooses a mate -- will indeed choose a mate who acts sufficiently "parental", so the other person can have another go at being the "child" and, hopefully this time, winning the "parent's" love and approval...! (of course that will never happen, because love is not something to be won, it has to be given as a gift, for no reason whatever! but maybe the person can learn that from the relationship, and then can stop seeking the love and approval ... and then may indeed be given it!)
and it's amazing, what different people we become, when merely relating to various people in our lives! for example, when A (above) is relating to a friend (someone who treats A as an equal) -- or even when relating to people in general -- A comes across as very confident, self-reliant, self-determining. in fact, A may often give advice and direction to others (and good advice, at that!).... AND THEN ... in the presence of a person who triggers just the right childhood memories, by acting "parental" in just the right ways ... person A becomes someone else entirely!! on a very basic, energetic level, the whole identity changes -- the self-determining person disappears in the blink of an eye; becomes the "child" again, totally subservient and devoted to the new "parent" ("yes, Dear, whatever you say -- your wish is my command!").... the "child" is reborn, and happily (even with great relief!) surrenders all decision-making to the new "parent" -- because this re-creates the unresolved situation, and puts the "child" in place for another attempt at winning the love and approval that was previously denied....
this even accounts for that phenomenon -- which had mystified me for eons! -- of a person meeting someone new, and whose immediate reaction is negative (one of great repulsion, even!) ... and then, the next thing you know, the 2 of them are married! this, we all know, is a staple of Hollywood movies -- and it happens in real life, too! it happens this way: on first meeting, the person is repelled because the other person triggers the memory of that unresolved childhood issue. the first instinct is to flee, because the memory is a painful one, and we instinctively avoid pain ("been there, done that, got the T-shirt, don't need another one!"). but then, a little later, some part of our consciousness says, "hmmm, you know, this could be a great opportunity to get back into that painful issue and resolve it -- and then be a lot happier! so, at first we flee -- i include myself, because i now realize i've done this several times, though not in a romantic context -- and then we come rocketing back to that very person, like an iron-filing feeling the pull of a magnet! (and, in fact, it is a good thing, because it gives us a way of resolving our previously-unresolved issues!)
so, dear Phillip, this is why guys like you and me are being told -- by the "experts"! -- to play the "game" of pushing women away, not treating them as equals, keeping them in suspense as to our true feelings about them ... and, most definitely, NOT to be "too nice" or too loving toward them! these rules are geared precisely for attracting women who have the aforementioned unresolved parental issues -- and, the sad thing is, those women are the great majority of the female population. (likewise, in fairness, we must admit that similarly-wounded men may account for a similar percentage of the male population.)
so, Phillip, it's good that we get dumped by these women; they're not the right ones for us! the ones we're looking for are those who have resolved their childhood issues, and who are ready for a mate who is, first of all, a friend and equal -- someone who will meet them halfway, who will allow and encourage the woman's own autonomy and freedom and growth; who will not tell her what to do and when to do it (not even if she wants him to!). and, as you and i have found out by personal experience, those "meet-me-halfway" women are few and far-between (most want to be either "parent" or "child", rather than an equal partner).... anyway, take heart, we will either attract one of them, or we won't! : ^ ) either way, at least we can stop driving ourselves crazy trying to attract the other ones....
AND ... IN THE END ... everything works out perfectly, just as in all the fairy-tales. each of us attracts exactly the people and events that can help us the most (even when the outcome may be something we never dreamed of!). we are always just where we need to be, doing just what we need to be doing ... and, as long as we're true to ourselves, we all end up winners....
ahhh, Max -- please say again what you said before; you said it so well....
"You are a child of the Universe
No less than the trees and the stars
You have a right to be here
And whether or not it is clear to you
No doubt the Universe is unfolding as it should."
yes. thank you so much!
Access: Public
Reiki
July 2008 
Thank you Don. You certainly have had a light bulb moment… a revelation….an epiphany….
and I agree with what you have said. Both of us knew that we were not in the crazy category… but you know, quite often when interacting with people, you stop and think ' does everyone else know the rules of this ' game ' and I don't ? It's like being all kitted out to play ice hockey and walking out onto a baseball field… you're standing out there trying to play baseball with ice hockey gear on, until you suddenly stop, mid game, and say to yourself ' Hey, wait a minute… WHAT am I here doing HERE ! ? ' and then calmly walking off, waving to the jeering crowds who have enjoyed the ridiculous spectacle, as I make my way to the ice hockey stadium where everyone there welcomes me with open arms and says ' where were you ? 'Why were you trying to play baseball ? We were waiting for you here !' and my answer to them would be… ' Because I was stupid ! ….but I'm not stupid any more ! '
Thanks Don… you are a shining light…..keep it shining !
ps… there's a guy on the ice with baseball gear on…hmmmm… think I'll suggest he changes his gear rather than give him directions to the baseball stadium… I think he'll thank me for it in the end…..
Don, Aloha…another fascinating perspective on your thoughts. Thanks for sharing!
””“”“”what i saw last night was that this phenomenon is rooted in our very earliest experiences, in how we were treated by our parents. not surprising at all - one of those life-revelations that has been “hiding in plain sight” all the time, only some of us (DUHHH!) have not been able to see it!”“”“”
Yes Don, you are absolutely right in your assumptions of why a person will be drawn to or, draw a person who would ultimately be so unsuitable into their lives.
However, and I preface this with 'however.'
'Whatever lesson and sorry that sounds like some trite, pseudo babble , quasi, trans fatty spiritual crapage….. but whatever 'lesson' you need to learn isn't even going to begin to change the 'type' of person one is drawn to until the very ( again apologies to myself) core lesson has been assimilated, digested, & processed.
So knowing is the beginning but the ego is very protective- very narcissistic, very conniving, very deceptive and what often happens is a scenario of 'different dress same woman' meaning, into your life will come a woman whom with your new found knowledge has all the right attributes (on the surface) Hmmm you are feeling very smug, very satisfied, very powerful… because finally the revelations are paying dividends and then you get lured in-sucked in- deep in, you are in love. hah hah hah You are overdosing on Vitamin L (the L is for Love) when slowly something seems so familiar. Haven't we been down this road before- the road that seemed so unfamiliar is now well known terrain …
But the good news is…. There is good news….the good news is: This is where the real actual true no bullshit learning happens! In order to fully learn don't they say or didn't Leonard Cohen say:
“Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.”
As you have so well defined the reenactment theory for yourself and would now be consciously aware of what you did and did not want to draw into your life……. also you would know that some people have so many masks and layers that you aren't always dealing with what you think you are getting..i.e. if you don't have a reference to a person's true nature that is sometimes hidden even from themselves.
If a person doesn't even know their true selves (and do we always know?) then it might be a bit difficult for you to know them. Time is the great revealer. Time will sort out the real from the false. People take on disguises and adapt phoney behaviors…. yes, even like spirituality (not all people who gravitate towards spirituality are fake either nor, all people who adopt religion or running) but stick around and dig deeply if you have the time and energy or else as Max Erhmann wrote “the universe is unfolding” and so are people.
And yes again Don….. the way we were treated ourselves as children is the way we treat ourselves and others as adults, unless we become aware and begin to work on it. We become aware when the way we treat others eventually backfires, no longer works or have a revelation that this is the way we no longer want to be treated because it is causing us more pain than joy… usually.
For every trauma experienced as a child their is an inner child (yup the old 'inner' child)that represents it and so when a person is drawn to you it is this subconscious desire to mesh the different children, the different traumas into one person- into the adult you.
You know all that psych 101 stuff anyway and then there are the exceptions the ones who know and miss the pain and want it as that is ALL they knew and pain can be familiar and people like the familiar. People miss the pain because it is a form of self mutilation it makes them feel some damn thing. It can be better than their feeling NOthing.
Hmmm that is a lot of work but as they are doing that you too are learning and integrating and maturing your childhood into adulthood. You are also integrating. Making whole.
Well Don if there are wounded women isn't it a given that there are an equal amount of wounded men about? And as we are all wounded if one believes in the biblical story and original sin and the pain of being incomplete. Then are we conversely all finding our way back to divine love whatever we feel that is……. to the source of it all ….to what is ultimately the best version of ourselves.
It's Life 101 and these people may very well be the gifts given to you to lift the veil of your very inner self- your soul.
Hi Don,i personaly think what you wrote is brilliant, however, amw brought the ball over the finish line for me……her last line says it all….
thanks, Phillip, amw, and jeannie —–
great comments! and yes, i agree, “these people” – and everything else in my experience of life – are indeed gifts to bring about my Self-realization…. thanks to amw for the reminder! (it's so easy to forget the most-obvious things!)
so, the paramount question for me seems to be: why HAVE i been attracted to the women i've been attracted to…???
Oh my gosh,Don, I almost died laughing for a full five minutes…oh wait a minute…. here I go again..HA HA you are soooo FUNNY I can'y even write…!!!!!!! Help I'm falling off my chair..!!!! I don't know if you intending to be a tad snippy or not, that's how it came across to me. Thank you for making me laugh so much .. Honestly, I wish i could help you with your question, I'm sure if you look within yourself,you will know….wishing you fun and laughter too ! Jeannie..p.s. After rereading everything I realize, you you replying very kindly. Forgive my imagination..still i can see it both ways…….
HA, now I'M laughing!!!
i assure you, i was not meaning to be funny – and definitely not snippy!! (haven't even heard that word for decades!! : ^ ) i was totally sincere about needing to be reminded of the most obvious things!
regarding that big question for myself ….. here's the best answer that has occurred to me so far (and it springs from what amw said about allowing time to reveal a person's true nature):
i've been attracted to women who seemed grown-up, truthful, self-propelled, etc., and who gave the impression of wanting a partner who was a friend and equal … but then it turned out, what they really wanted was a macho, father figure, to give them orders! and i'm the last guy in the world who is going to do that!!!!
Don, Reading and rereading your answer, I find you have answered your own question better than anyone.
””“”“i've been attracted to women who seemed grown-up, truthful, self-propelled, etc., and who gave the impression of wanting a partner who was a friend and equal … but then it turned out, what they really wanted was a macho, father figure, to give them orders! and i'm the last guy in the world who is going to do that!!!!”“”
'Seemed' seemed, seem·ing, seems
To give the impression of being; appear: The child seems healthy, but the doctor is concerned. To appear to one's own opinion or mind: To appear to be true, probable, or evident: assume, hint, imply, insinuate, intimate, look, look like, pretend
Then Don there are people who are relationship assasins that sound like and seem like normal people. If you have no reference to them it is unfathomnable that you would know they exist. It is inexplicable to think that someone would act in the name of love for what is in essence an act of violence /of hatred /of emotional and physical rape.
Rape is defined as 1.the unlawful compelling of a woman **********(I am adding man to this definition) through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
Rape or its definition should be changed from '''' forced ''''''''to the rapee being ignorant of the other persons intent. To lure a person into your life for the sole benefit of misuse… engage the person in conversation and emails and eventually intimacy/sex without any intent of it being a mutual act, of 'Love' That is rape in my mind.
However the good news is that this also can be a life lesson. Perhaps in retrospect the greatest lesson of all. the lurers are masters and mistresses of finding your heart /detecting your achilles heel- your weaknesses and then exploiting them….They will play you like a violin and leave you unstrung….They don't just do this to the naive and innocent but to well educated, intelligent beings.
But Don do you think you could meet a woman now who appeared not needing of the things you don't want to give her ?
May I say there are times in any relationship where one feels a need to lean on one's partner/ to take advantage as it were of the fatherly/motherly side. I am assuming you don't mean the withdrawal of those traits but, that the focal points of the relationship are being two adults supporting each other without generalized seeking of paternal replacements.
Hello Don,
I am home for lunch and thinking about soaking the rice and barley….. seriously, I am following your recipes. I will let you know what I think and how I feel. And wanted to thank you for making me aware of other foods- other avenues toward health.
I had a thought and am not playing therapist here (In fact take everything with a pinch of sea salt:) but more an intuitive feel to things you said..
I try not to make personal remarks because it isn't my business but this feeling is so strong that I had this little voice that grew and grew as I worked…Isn't that amazing here I am in Connecticut working and this feeling tells me that it is sometimes impossible to get the things we want from the people we draw into our lives but, we do draw them in… we tend to seek them out time after time, to find what we can't find, to hope the next time we will find it. We will get it right. If not for ourselves then on behalf of the histories of our parents or grandparents. We want to find a resolution to their and consequently our stories.
Don you wrote:
””“”“”for example: a person (whether male or female; call this person A) who grew up feeling deprived of parental attention, or feeling never able to be good enough, or to do things well enough, to please the parents – and if these feelings have not been resolved by the time the person chooses a mate – will indeed choose a mate who acts sufficiently “parental”, so the other person can have another go at being the “child” and, hopefully this time, winning the “parent's” love and approval…! (of course that will never happen, because love is not something to be won, it has to be given as a gift, for no reason whatever! but maybe the person can learn that from the relationship, and then can stop seeking the love and approval … and then may indeed be given it!)”“”“”“”“”“”“”
When one begins to feel /to love/ one is opened as children and things are triggered from a time long ago when love or the seeds of it were being formed and one is so vulnerable and for whatever reason this person/s were sent into your life it is without a doubt to reawaken in you the need to come to terms with the side of you that hasn't felt fathered….forgive me for an assumption but it seems to be a very strong feeling on your part that you do not wish to be the”“'father'''' to the partner who seemed to be strong and independent and now seemingly is not so.
They want nurturance or as you see it a father figure who gives direction.
Have you had that and are capable then of finding that within you…. or if not having had it, might it seem impossibe to give it.
I think you seem the strong good parent- caring type, who cooks and tends to frogs and nature and would give a person who had NOT been fathered at all or inadequately a perhaps, misinterpreted idea that you were that person- who has it in spades….
They would view you as a caretaker, as someone with much nuturance within you. The source within.
Maybe I am way 'off the mark 'on this one but I think when people disappoint it says more about us and our expectations than them and theirs.
So….When you look back at your childhhod did you (and I am not asking you to tell me but as a reflective exercise.) did you ever feel when you needed the strong father or the guidance or the macho man that it was nowhere to be found.
If the answer is yes then you have found what irks you when another person looks to you for what was denied you. And incidently should have been yours.Anjela
here's the latest from Phillip (who asked me to post it for him) —
———————————————————————————–
“Don, I think you are absolutely right! The same has happened to me on several occasions. I don't think it's always a case of women wanting men to give them orders but I do think that women always want the men to take the lead.. to be confident, assertive and at ease with themselves.. women do respond amazingly positively to men who give the impression that what the woman thinks has little or no consequence for them.. it does go back to our furthermost ancestors … the male has to be both dominant and caring and sensitive and AT EASE WITH THEMSELVES!
… .
“One thing that I have ingrained into my head now is this: That I am the prize. This sounds so arrogant but since adopting this attitude, my relationships with women have improved massively. I don't appear grateful for their attention and 'needy' which is how woman can perceive things. Over the past few weeks I have discovered that this attitude really works. I don't have to change my personality .. all I needed was to sharpen up my perception of when I was falling into the trap of almost being grateful if a woman wanted to spend time with me… it come from my childhood and parents of course who were unimaginably grateful for everything.. especially people who they knew… it was a deep underlying inferiority complex .. I can see it now… and I could see it in me for years… It is also to do with projecting an image of self confidence … and of projecting an image of not caring what a woman thinks of you whatever you are saying … and as you do it, it really does start to make things happen … and believe it or not, the very women who you imagined you wanted to be in your life start appearing and want to be with you… it's very paradoxical because where I have been has been mostly determined by my parents/past/past experiences… and that's ok if it brings peace, contentment, satisfaction, fulfillment, joy, love and whatever else one wants in ones life, but if it doesn't, one really does have to reassess what needs changing..
“hmmmmmm… maybe I'll just carry on with painting lol !!!”
——————————————————————————
Phillip, thanks very much for this! what you say resonates greatly with me…. in fact, i would go astep farther and say that self-confidence is an important aspect in our attracting other self-confident people (both men and women) and good events and situations…. also, i agree with your distaste for the “I am the prize” philosophy – it does seem super-arrogant to me! you say it is attracting just the kind of women you have desired – and that sounds like good news!! but the words of amw come back to me, suggesting that a little caution (and, mostly, Time) may be required, to be sure that the surface appearance matches the deeper reality… : ^ )
in all this discussion, and in all my own contemplations of the subject, i frequently just think back to my childhood observations of my own parents – and i cannot imagine my father, in his dealings with my mother, ever having the idea, “I am the prize!” i feel sure, such a thought would never have occurred to him!! he was a strong, self-confident, often willful, down-to-earth guy … who treated almost everyone (including my mother) with love and fairness and equanimity. the idea of either of my parents thinking of themselves as “the prize” actually makes me laugh! they were best friends and partners, who were just themselves with each other, just REAL – and so i grew up thinking that was how it would be with me and women…. i had no idea there were any “games” to be played!!!
Anjela – thanks for your latest (and very thoughtful, as always) contributions here…. yes, a few of us are having quite an exploration of this subject!!
i agree with your expanded definition of rape! in my case, though, i don't think the women involved have been deliberately trying to mislead or hurt me – i think they and i have just not been playing by the same set of rules (and that we had each mistakenly assumed we were!)….
i do have some experience (plenty, in fact) of allowing myself to be taken unfair advantage of; maybe a little bit in the romantic arena, but mostly just in general life…. the people you describe are what i call “energy-vampires”…. : ^ ) – and i'm slowly getting better at detecting them early-on and keeping away from them!
you asked: “…do you think you could meet a woman now who appeared not needing of the things you don't want to give her?” all i can say is: “we shall see….”
you said: “…the focal points of the relationship are being two adults supporting each other without generalized seeking of paternal replacements.” —– yes!
AND … soaking rice and barley — YAYYYYY!!!!! thanks so much for telling me! i'm so glad you're getting into that!
about the possibility that i myself lacked a strong father — that was definitely not the case. he was quite a strong guy: confident, firmly rooted in the Earth (a cattle-and-wheat rancher), and yet very caring and nurturing and playful (and with a big, soft heart!). neither of my parents was shy about giving me direction (nor flat-out telling me what to do, when they felt it was needed!) – and i appreciate that greatly, because it's necessary and appropriate in a parent-child situation.
you know, what you say about me giving the appearance of a fatherly figure – nurturing, etc. – is true; and i know that women have been attracted to me for that reason; in fact, i've made it clear that i would LOVE to nurture them, to help them heal, to give them a safe and calm place, in which they would be free to be themselves and to unfurl whatever gifts were hiding inside of them. i would be glad to offer a sense of direction, too, if they wanted that. i just never suspected that, along with the nurturing and (possibly) direction, they expected me to “lay down the law” and to discipline them if they disobeyed it !!!
“It ain't me, Babe
No, no, no, it ain't me, Babe
It ain't me you're a-lookin' for, Babe…..!!”
(Bob Dylan)
This blog is getting very interesting…
When saying 'prize' I mean valuing oneself… as related to a good self esteem; to actually value yourself to the extent that you don't need others to affirm your existence….this sounds very bizarre.. but you know we all do it to a greater or lesser degree… who can, with hand on their heart, say that they don't 'need' the affirmation of others to improve their self esteem… it is a dangerous place to be because it leaves your persona wide open to abuse as well as to love…..and if this happens we can close up and block out new experiences and people because of the safety barriers we put up to guard ourselves…. and then we stop listening to our intuition… do you know, we spend 95% of our time blocking our intuition because we are terrified with the prospect of something without a guaranteed outcome… fear causes us to follow outcomes which are more certain, even though those routes we decide to take are more often than not against our intuition… we look for the route of our journey too often though others rather than ourselves……I may have gone off the subject slightly but…but….but not really. I agree with you completely here, Don : ” in fact, i would go astep farther and say that self-confidence is an important aspect in our attracting other self-confident people (both men and women) and good events and situations…
…we do really need to stop adjusting our behavious to attract/repel/suit/love/loathe others…it all comes back to the question… what is 'being real' with each other…..I don't think there is a clear cut answer….'being real' opens up a massive set of other questions…lots of people who I know who seem comfortable with each other are the result of learnt behaviours.. their reality has been guided/moulded/determined/cajoled/by their interaction with their partner/spouse/whoever….they have turned into who they are because of the other person to a greater or lesser degree. I don't believe these are games.. it is what happens… and when one interacts with another person it is the cogs grinding together to see how that person ' fits'…..and so many people seem to grind down their own cogs, or try to grind down their partner's/spouse's/whoever's cogs, to allow their partner's/spouse's/whoever's cogs to run more smoothly….hmmmmmm interesting… what I am talking about is to be able to not grind one's cogs away at all but mesh with people who fit into your cogs without THEM, either, having to grind theirs down. Enough of all this grinding……I'll get back to my easel !!
wow — good stuff again, thank you, Phillip!!
maybe i misunderstood the tone of “I am the prize”…. if it really is just an affirmation of self-worth – not in relation to anyone else – then i withdraw my objection to it…. : ^ ) but, it seemed to me that you were indeed using it in relation to another person – in such a way that the other person was supposed to think of YOU as the prize, rather than you thinking of them as equally a prize….
about the cogs: i quite agree, the less grinding, the better…! : ^ )
and … here's my latest lightning-bolt of realization *_* —- probably sure to send even my closest friends after me with straitjackets —- but, que sera sera, it's my story and i'm sticking to it…… it's called PEACE ………………………………….
speaking of my father … i meant to include a link before, to a story about one aspect of his life. here it is: http://aloha.johreiki.net/todate.5.php#28